Thanks David. I am trying. Yet I just can't see how you could top the relevance of a Hatshepsut and a Senenmut to understand the story of Moses by another chronology.
Perhaps some other piece(s) of the timelines are not yet well enough understood.
I must admit I do not have the overview to judge.
Only, I would need a better fit for the two above mentioned. And I don't think anyone could provide such
What I can see, though, is: How clearly the Scriptures (if they were translated well enough by using the better manuscripts and the better meaning of words) inform us about the ancestors' and Israel's past. No doubt, they are not always easy to comprehend and we are blinded by the false images and statues and legend-and-fairy-tale-like stories and silly rituals the churches and religions have dumped on people to dumb them down. No wonder the smarter a child is, the earlier an agnostic it becomes. You and Shane are good examples right there.
Me, my atheism has - for biographic reasons - harmed me more than the average kid.
That is why I hate these religions more than you guys might ever will.
I hate their images, their "saints", their translations, their false bible dictionaries, their commentaries.
I don't find the patience to read through all your books not knowing what I could gain from them. You (and I am inclined to include Shane here) are closer to the truth of God than 999 ٪. of pastors and theologians. That is clear to me.
[Not that my assessment is of any relevance here. I was just trying to explain myself. Thanks for reading.]
Btw talk to Stephen Compton, Nehemia Gordon, Gerard Gertoux, Christopher Eames some time. Perhaps together with Shane.
Interesting idea, but I'm guessing Rohl would have mentioned that when he posted his comment. I'd recommend reading Michael Bar-Ron's essay on the cylinder seal. He makes a strong case for connecting the images on the seal with the blessing of Jacob on the 12 sons in Gen 49 (as well as information recorded in Dt 33).
Thanks! You are right. He did a great job on this seal. I especially appreciate his uncontaminated and fresh non-church approach (as with David Rohl and yourself).
On the photography it looks less like two ladders. The sketch could be done a little better. Have an artist redo it. There seems to (have) be(en) a winged creature on the seal, too.
What speaks against the fighter being Yaakov?
What is the other bird (?) that is on the seal?
And the symbols on the ships (of Dan/the Phoenicians)?
Could Dan be the snake and the ship (leaving no traces in the sea like the snake that moves without footprints)?
The artistic context needs to be taken into consideration. In this period it was common to decorate area of bodies or features with what we call hatching or cross-hatching. There are many examples of such decorative hatching on scarabs and other seals ... which tends to confirm that the scratches on these two mountains, upon which the deity stands, is a straightforward example of hatching.
No Hans, the. reign of Amenhotep II is absolutely not the time of the Exodus! You clearly haven't read any of my books or posts or critiques of the mid-18th Dynasty Exodus. You seem to be completely unaware of the New Chronology revision of the Egyptian timeline and all the publications by researchers dealing with it. Why don't you take the time to listen to the interviews I have done for the Humble Skeptic podcasts in order to familiarise yourself with my work. I think it would be helpful to you.
I’ll give this article and the other one you sent a read soon (not this week, however — too much going on). If you want to understand Rohl’s view better, I’d start with Exodus: Myth or History. When you’re finished with that, get Legendary Kings.
Hans, glad you liked it! I'd recommend reading M. Bar-Ron's essay on the Cylinder Seal (which also features a completely different sketch). You probably won't be convinced by everything, but he does try to explain all the images on the seal, and makes plausible connections to the 12 tribes. https://www.academia.edu/35532146/The_Seal_of_Joseph_in_His_Palace_at_Tell_Ed_Daba_Re_edited_
Thanks David. I am trying. Yet I just can't see how you could top the relevance of a Hatshepsut and a Senenmut to understand the story of Moses by another chronology.
Perhaps some other piece(s) of the timelines are not yet well enough understood.
I must admit I do not have the overview to judge.
Only, I would need a better fit for the two above mentioned. And I don't think anyone could provide such
What I can see, though, is: How clearly the Scriptures (if they were translated well enough by using the better manuscripts and the better meaning of words) inform us about the ancestors' and Israel's past. No doubt, they are not always easy to comprehend and we are blinded by the false images and statues and legend-and-fairy-tale-like stories and silly rituals the churches and religions have dumped on people to dumb them down. No wonder the smarter a child is, the earlier an agnostic it becomes. You and Shane are good examples right there.
Me, my atheism has - for biographic reasons - harmed me more than the average kid.
That is why I hate these religions more than you guys might ever will.
I hate their images, their "saints", their translations, their false bible dictionaries, their commentaries.
I don't find the patience to read through all your books not knowing what I could gain from them. You (and I am inclined to include Shane here) are closer to the truth of God than 999 ٪. of pastors and theologians. That is clear to me.
[Not that my assessment is of any relevance here. I was just trying to explain myself. Thanks for reading.]
Btw talk to Stephen Compton, Nehemia Gordon, Gerard Gertoux, Christopher Eames some time. Perhaps together with Shane.
Might these two "cross-hatched" mounds be granaries?
Interesting idea, but I'm guessing Rohl would have mentioned that when he posted his comment. I'd recommend reading Michael Bar-Ron's essay on the cylinder seal. He makes a strong case for connecting the images on the seal with the blessing of Jacob on the 12 sons in Gen 49 (as well as information recorded in Dt 33).
Thanks! You are right. He did a great job on this seal. I especially appreciate his uncontaminated and fresh non-church approach (as with David Rohl and yourself).
Brilliant conversation. Again. Thanks a lot.
On the photography it looks less like two ladders. The sketch could be done a little better. Have an artist redo it. There seems to (have) be(en) a winged creature on the seal, too.
What speaks against the fighter being Yaakov?
What is the other bird (?) that is on the seal?
And the symbols on the ships (of Dan/the Phoenicians)?
Could Dan be the snake and the ship (leaving no traces in the sea like the snake that moves without footprints)?
The artistic context needs to be taken into consideration. In this period it was common to decorate area of bodies or features with what we call hatching or cross-hatching. There are many examples of such decorative hatching on scarabs and other seals ... which tends to confirm that the scratches on these two mountains, upon which the deity stands, is a straightforward example of hatching.
May I ask ypu to have a look at this:
https://armstronginstitute.org/1041-is-this-moses?utm_source=AIBA+Brief&utm_campaign=5b22e50b4c-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2024_10_02_01_39_COPY_01&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_-cd9176563d-491105957
No Hans, the. reign of Amenhotep II is absolutely not the time of the Exodus! You clearly haven't read any of my books or posts or critiques of the mid-18th Dynasty Exodus. You seem to be completely unaware of the New Chronology revision of the Egyptian timeline and all the publications by researchers dealing with it. Why don't you take the time to listen to the interviews I have done for the Humble Skeptic podcasts in order to familiarise yourself with my work. I think it would be helpful to you.
https://www.humbleskeptic.com/p/the-sinai-inscriptions/comment/109539431?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android&r=1ya6y6
Yes, and I have to keep reminding myself how small these seals and scarabs are. Do you know the actual size of this one? I cannot find it.
Impressive is how Bietak could write so clearly and ignore so thorougly at the same time:
"The information
in the Annals provides only one glimpse of what may
well have been a routine affair. There were surely many
expeditions of this kind during the Twelfth Dynasty,
and this may well explain the large number of people
from Western Asia living in Egypt during the late Mid-
dle Kingdom, as revealed by the above-mentioned Illa-
hun papyri. A papyrus in the Brooklyn Museum
from
the early Thirteenth Dynasty documents the presence
of Asiatics in Egyptian households, even in provincial
areas of Upper Egypt. From the same papyrus we also
know that these Asiatics received Egyptian names but
that their original names continued to be recorded. With
their new names, they became quickly assimilated and
could even have careers at the palace and in the admin-
istration; most of them blended in with the native
Egyptians.
The question is if these people must be
identified with those at the root of Hyksos rule some
160 years later.
On stelae at Serabit el-Khadim on Sinai, contingents
of Near Easterns are listed among the personnel of min-
ing expeditions that took place during the late Twelfth
Dynasty.
An Asiatic dignitary called “brother of the
ruler of Retjenu” participated at least four times.
We
shall argue below that, at the time, the “ruler of
Retjenu” most probably had his seat at Tell el-Dab¨a,
and that it may have been from there that the expedi-
tions were organised.
From a large tomb chapel at
Tell el-Dab¨a (phase H) originates an over-lifesize
limestone statue of a high dignitary in Asiatic gear
(Fig. 6).
He has yellow skin, a red, mushroom-shaped
coiffure and wears a long multi-coloured dress. As a
sign of dignity, he holds a crooked staff against one
shoulder. He seems to have been a typical Asiatic
prince, who was buried in the earliest phase of Asiatic
settlement inside the cemetery’s biggest tomb, and with
a cupola. A similar limestone statue, if somewhat
smaller, appeared in an American private collection in
the 1950s (now in the Museum of Munich) and may
have come from this very cemetery.
A tomb of simi-
lar size as the one just mentioned appears to be the like-
liest burial place of the man depicted in this second
statue.
In a nearby tomb of the next phase, attached to a
palatial mansion, has been found a scarab of the late
Twelfth Dynasty whose inscription names a “[ruler of
R]etjenu” (Plate 13).
The seal is made of amethyst
and mounted on a gold ring. One wonders if its finds-
pot indicates that this “ruler of Retjenu” lived at Tell
el-Dab¨a, conceivably at this mansion. During the Mid-
dle Kingdom, the toponym Retjenu covers the area of
Palestine and Lebanon.
From here: https://www.academia.edu/10074987/_From_where_came_the_Hyksos_and_where_did_they_go_in_M_Mar%C3%A9e_ed_The_Second_Intermediate_Period_Thirteenth_Seventeenth_Dynasties_Current_Research_Future_Prospects_OLA_192_Leuven_2010_Peeters_139_181
Super helpful. Thanks David!
Would you be so kind to have a look at this:
https://armstronginstitute.org/1041-is-this-moses?utm_source=AIBA+Brief&utm_campaign=5b22e50b4c-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2024_10_02_01_39_COPY_01&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_-cd9176563d-491105957
I’ll give this article and the other one you sent a read soon (not this week, however — too much going on). If you want to understand Rohl’s view better, I’d start with Exodus: Myth or History. When you’re finished with that, get Legendary Kings.
Hans, glad you liked it! I'd recommend reading M. Bar-Ron's essay on the Cylinder Seal (which also features a completely different sketch). You probably won't be convinced by everything, but he does try to explain all the images on the seal, and makes plausible connections to the 12 tribes. https://www.academia.edu/35532146/The_Seal_of_Joseph_in_His_Palace_at_Tell_Ed_Daba_Re_edited_